Droog Magazine. Investigations

droog magazine

HOME

March 23, 2019 - Droog Magazine periodical for investigative journalism

The Hitler Forgery Industry

Interview Jo Rivett:

'Fakes, an insult to history'

Introduction | Interview | Books

Reactions |

Dutch version: Dossier Hitlervervalsingen - Jo Rivett: vervalsingen zijn een belediging voor de geschiedenis

The strange business of selling fakes, forgeries and other concoctions attributed to Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) and other Nazis

to Hitler Forgery Industry main page - to Droog Magazine

2019 | Auctions | Press

A Droog Magazine / The Post Online coproduction

Introduction

The trade in Nazi militaria and memorabilia, including Hitleriana, is a lucrative business with a yearly revenue of multi millions of euros. What makes this trade so attractive is that only small investments and a bit of fantasy are needed to change rather worthless and very common objects into extremely expensive 'historical and rare' items.

We've seen how this is done in the trade with fake Hitler paintings, where forgers only have to acquire random unsigned amateur paintings and daub 'A. Hitler' on it, fabricate or buy a fraudulent 'certificate of authenticity', to raise the value from a few euro to tens of thousands of euros.

The forgers and swindlers can - or at least could, until very recently - sell these forgeries very easily, as sensationalist media gave plenty free publicity to auctions of 'authentic' Hitler paintings, thereby press-ganging potential buyers from all over the globe.

Ironically more free publicity to these auctions is generated by all kinds of protests, based on the assumption that the Hitleriana are authentic and therefore directly connected with the Holocaust.

Yet the trade in the false Hitler paintings forms only a relatively small part in the Nazi memorabilia trade. Considerable more money circulates in the trade of alleged authentic Third Reich medals, daggers, uniforms and other items. These objects are also traded at the same auctions where the fake paintings are offered, but also via web shops, internet fora and on militaria fairs.

And just as is the case with the alleged Hitler paintings, most of the objects sold in this circuit are fakes or - at least - not what they are said to be.

About this phenomenon I spoke with Jo Rivett, author of three reference books about particular Nazi medals, writer for the magazines The Military Advisor and The International Militaria Collector and producer and director of some 200 videos, in which he exposes fakes and scams from the Nazi militaria world - once to be seen on his Youtube channel Micro Macro - The Sherlock Holmes of Third Reich Militaria (banned after complaints from members of the forgery industry), now on his Bitchute channel Micro-Macro-Militaria.

The classic Nazi Shit Paper Scam video by Jo Rivett

Rivett, born in Europe and raised in South Africa, lives since 1997 in Switzerland. His interest for coins and the history they hold paved the way for his specialization.

Interview: questions and answers

The Rivett-research

Mr. Rivett, are you dealing in Nazi memorabilia yourself?

Rivett: "Yes and No. My website is primarily to promote a detailed, microscopic research of badges, awards and medals. It contains loads of period material pertaining to the German medal industry that users can read or download, as well as an integrated forum.

The discussions that take place on my forum are unlike any other forum, and always center around facts and the actual items. There are a few more people like me who own expensive microscopes, and study awards and badges like I do.

No posts are censored, and no dealer is protected from discussion-ridicule. There are no sponsors, no dealer adverts, no promotion, it is 100% about the collector.

My main interest is writing books, exposing fake militaria, promoting the use of the microscope in the hobby, and educating like-minded collectors. From time to time I will get offered a few badges or medals, and will sell these on the site, but that's a rare occurrence, and so no, I would not consider myself to be dealing in Nazi militaria at all. I would consider myself to be dealing in the truth, and confronting the crooks and fraudsters in the hobby head on, hopefully showing new collectors what a twisted, sordid hobby this is.

Nazis were also people. And as far as who did what, I won't judge, I was not alive then, the world was different. I have no right to judge them, or what they did or did not do.

I just like history."

Do you think exposing the scams is changing anything? Or do most collectors just keep buying from proven swindlers because they want to believe the artifacts are authentic?

Rivett: "Well, I have seen what's happened since the publication of my book The Party Badge in 2013. That book took me ten years to research and write, and is very critical of the hobby and the way business and discussions take place. Certain dealers are named, fingers pointed at the old, incorrect collectors literature, a book quite unlike anything ever offered to the collecting community so far.

My site has been online for nearly 20 years now, so I have witnessed the change in attitude from collectors who are unsatisfied.

But, in general, you have to understand the mentality, to better understand why things could and will never change overnight.

Many collectors just want to buy something, and have amassed collections from these old swindlers, bought items and their accompanying fables of being "Vet bring backs" or "Textbook originals" or whatever else the old swindlers use to sell their items.

So they have pension funds now in the form of their collections. They need to sell up at some point, so even though they will know that their idols were wrong, and that old collectors literature that has no footnotes or sources can be nothing more than opinion, they still need to cling tight to it. At least until they have sold up.

This is evident on fora where many collectors own samples of the same fake. Instead of acknowledging a new book or video that exposes that item as not possibly genuine, they will band together, and by using personal insults and attacks, will keep the fable alive that their item is indeed genuine, and that Jo Rivett and his suggestions of using a microscope to inspect the items is ludicrous. Common sense seems to go out the window, historical documented facts become irrelevant.

The general consensus must win.

Maybe they have become somewhat brainwashed over the decades, and lapped up "Collectors Guides To..." with zero footnotes and pictures and opinion only, that they believe this is the way life works.

If they can find a picture of their item in some old collectors book as genuine, then the fact that there may be a documented fact stating that their item cannot be original, cannot even be considered.

I don't think that these grown men are stupid, but more that they cannot allow themselves to see the truth because of the potential financial loss that goes with it. As well as the embarrassment."

to top of page | to start interview

The people and objects

Mr. Rivett, what can you tell us about the people who are active in the Nazi militaria circuit, or 'the hobby', as insiders call it?

Rivett: "Well, I would say the bulk is made up of three kinds. One batch consists of the general interest people who have no life, and just use collecting as a gate to talk to others on fora, meet people, chat, upload photos. They have no real idea about anything, and only have a superficial interest in history. Its mostly about just having a hobby that brings you into contact with others.

The next batch are the dealers, and I don't mean people with websites, I mean the small dealers. People who started as ordinary collectors, but realized pretty quickly how much money is to be made in the hobby.

They'll troll each forum sales stand for cheap items that they can flip a buck on."

Excuse me, 'troll'?

Rivett: "Probably just my slang. 'Trolling', just hanging about, not contributing anything factual to any debate, not doing anything to help a discussion, simply watching who's selling what, what items are being talked about or hyped up, what's to be had for cheap money and what can be sold quickly and easily.

I know the word 'troll' probably has another meaning for most, but that's what a forum troll is for me. Someone who's only on a forum to see what they can get for themselves."

Ah, I see. Please carry on.

Rivett: "These small dealers troll small time dealers sites too. They too, have no real idea about history or the items, and don't want to, they are just in the hobby to flip items for a quick return.

They will scout the net, see X-item listed as "ABC" and selling for x-amount. Find that same item for much cheaper, buy it, advertise it as they have found (no checking to see if the title is correct) and move on to the next.

Usually offering it for less, and mentioning as well that "This item usually cost x-amount on dealers sites."

And how about the third category, the main dealers, the 'veterans', are they competent?

Rivett: "Well, they don't really have any idea what they are doing either. Even people like Thomas Wittmann who have written God knows how many books, he's got no idea. The majority of collectors literature amounts to nothing more than picture books.

That has sufficed collectors for decades, and still seems to work. These old guys just copy and paste from each other, and parrot what they once heard as gospel.

They are not really deeply interested in history, facts or what’s genuine or not, for them, its about being part of an elite club that somehow think they run the hobby. The MAX and SOS club, those that do all the shows and are known by all and sundry.

MAX? SOS? Shows?

Rivett: "These are militaria fairs, in the hobby known as 'shows'. 'MAX' stands for 'Militaria Antiques Xtravaganza', 'SOS' stands for 'Show of Shows'."

Okay and oh: The New York Times reported on Wittmann and MAX in 1993, in this article, 'Evil for sale'. What is your opinion on these shows?

Rivett: "It's just about making money. In many cases hand over fist."

The Canadian news medium Independent Free Press published in 2018 an interview with one of these main dealers, the American Bill Shea. He was described as a "worldwide highly regarded expert in collecting authentic militaria", owner of an online retail store for collectors, 'The Ruptured Duck', writer of several military books and consultant on numerous history projects. What's your opinion on him?

Rivett: "This multimillionaire knows zero about militaria, but because he is so rich, and a part of Thomas Wittmann's MAX and SOS club, he is one of the so-called "Old Boys"."

Can you corroborate on this?

Rivett: "He sells the most ridiculous fakes. He can and will never discuss anything; he cannot debate because he simply has no idea. Why and how he rose to the top of the militaria food chain is a mystery to me.

Screenshot from the item on Shea's site

To give one example: in his web shop he offered a fantasy stickpin, for the, wait for it, Lebensborn! Yes, he really does believe that such a secretive SS organization had a stickpin that members wore in public! Price: $1,295.-

Screenshot from the item on www.ww2military.net/MEDALS-3.html [seen 19-03-2019]

Crazy, those pins are known by collectors anyway as being fantasy
inventions, available for $10 - $100 dollars all over. They were produced in the 1990's!

These old farts know nothing about history, and don't wish to. It is about making money.

Try and find a Certificate of Authenticity (CoA) that Mr. Shea has written and you will fall over laughing. His CoAs contains more words about himself and his achievements in Hollywood, than about the actual item."

Source CoA: https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item.php?ID=11783

Yes, indeed. This Shea-CoA looks remarkable similar to the CoAs the forged Hitler paintings swindlers August Priesack and Peter Jahn issued. These too contained superfluous information about the issuers. Weird. But back to Mr. Shea. Do continue.

Rivett: "I included a piece about him last year, he had a 1957-issue Kriegsmarine award listed for 1500 dollars, stating that it was an extremely rare Nazi item. I showed many items of what it actually was, and worth only $30 - $50 at best, and not rare.

At the moment he has a Golden party badge for sale for $1,150.-, that came from me. I sold that badge two years ago for $550.- to some collector. That is all it is worth, as the engraved membership number cannot be researched. I tried unsuccessfully, and stated so.

Screenshot from the item on Shea's site.

Shea just listed it for $1,150.-, stating that he has not yet researched it! Thus giving hope to a potential buyer that the number could be researched. It cannot, and he knows it cannot, because he has all his Gold Party Badge numbers researched by Robert McDivitt.

So that’s just a swindlers trick, pretending he has not researched it yet to give hope... when he knows full well it cannot be researched. A slimy trick.And double the price it should be. All his stuff is way more that it should be. The guy is slimy... a greaseball."

Hmm - I now see he's also selling Nazi helmets for staggering amounts too. For up to $15,500!

Anyhow, speaking about slimy greaseballs, how about Neo Nazis in the hobby?

Rivett: "As far as white power people and real radical Neo Nazis go, they are not involved in the hobby at all. I have never met one and never will, they are not going to want an original item and pay top dollar for it, but more just a few bits and bobs to hang on their walls or show their friends. Not to say they are not in the hobby, they may well be, but they don't engage with other collectors about their views if they are, and are a breed all unto themselves."

to top of page | to start interview

The money

The prices I've seen for some medals really surprise me. For instance, €10,000.- for a Knight's Cross without any information whom the thing was awarded to, in the Dutch webshop Militariaplaza.nl; € 32,000. for a Pour le Mérite with an obvious fantasy provenance. So, about how much money are we speaking?

Rivett: "From my experience, I would estimate that the global yearly trade in Nazi militaria would be 8 figures. If it is not a billion dollar industry, it is close. I have customers who own more than 5 millions worth of militaria in their "Man cave" at home.

You also realize that it is the perfect business for laundering and washing money? With all shows being Cash Only.

Let us pretend I wished to wash €100,000.- quickly. Well I would go to a show in Germany, Belgium, the USA and where as they are all over, and within 10 minutes I would spend that money and have goods that cannot be traced, connected to an owner, and are freely tradeable, sellable over the net or in person at other shows. Goods that the general public do not care to talk about even."

Yes, when one looks at on of the biggest Nazi militaria auction houses in Germany, Hermann Historica in Munich, which organizes at least two Nazi militaria auctions each year, with a revenue of about €1.7 million each, one notices that these auctions hardly draw any attention, unless some alleged Hitler or Eva Braun items are offered.

to top of page | to start interview

The internet fora

Whilst researching the fake Hitler paintings on internet, I stumbled over numerous internet fora where Nazi militaria are discussed, such as the Wehrmacht Awards Forum (WAF) and the War Relics Forum. How reliable and independent are these fora?

Rivett: "The Wehrmacht Awards Forum is controlled, sponsored and run by a few militaria dealers. It has nothing to do with the word "independent" or facts or truth or research. Posts are censored, users removed if they question the wrong people, or wrong items. It is, without a doubt, the worst place a new collector could go looking for answers."

The dealers and sponsors who control the Wehrmacht Awards Forum, do not tolerate any opinion other than theirs. Understandable really, as many of them have been promoting and selling fakes and fantasy items for so long now, that they simply cannot allow themselves to be corrected, be "shown up" among their flock of brainwashed forum-sheep. Not to mention the financial side of having to refund thousands of dollars."

Lots of people are also just in the hobby to buy something for a low price and then try and shift it quickly on a forum or Facebook group for as much profit as they can. All tax free of course, the War Relics Forum, for example, proudly state on their sales thread, sales to the tune of nearly 2 million dollars, just on their forum! This is just one forum, and there are many.

Was any of that money declared? Was any tax paid? Of course not.

And why does the Wehrmacht Awards Forum let it go on? Well it is dealer-run and sponsored, so together with membership fees would be raking in vast sums of money a year, just on that. So, let those that fill the owners wallet do as they wish.

A forum is really not about facts, and more just a place to show and tell, and sell under the radar.

And not forgetting the 'Sales' threads on the Wehrmacht Awards Forum (WAF). If the War Relics Forum boast sales to the tune of two million US dollar, you can believe the yearly turnover on the WAF would be that, or more!"

I noticed you were taking part in the discussions on the Wehrmacht Awards Forum, but were expelled. What happened?

Rivett: "I was never told, but it would have been because I exposed a small fake Fallschirmjäger cap badge that every dealer is selling as original, here - and see also Sodcast 6: "The 1st Para Corps Badge Scam."

The Moderator of that section, a Mr. Willi Zahn, did not agree that my microscopic examinations proved anything, and desperately wished his fakes to be real, so much so that it was easier for him to just ban me from the forum, than engage in any logical discussion. That’s very common, however, and he has since gone on to promote that fake over and over on the Wehrmacht Awards forum, and get it into a new 'collectors reference book' by French author Karl Veltze as a genuine artifact."

to top of page | to start interview

On the authenticity of items

Mr. Rivett, recent research on the 'Hitler' painting trade points out that at least 98% of all alleged Hitler watercolors and drawings offered on auctions are forgeries. What is the situation in the Nazi medals, badges and awards trade?

Rivett: "From what I have seen, about 80% of everything available today on the open market is either fake, or a complete fantasy item.

This is nothing new, fakes and fantasy items started to populate this hobby from as far back as the 1960's. In the 1970's, however, it exploded, and has never stopped.

Depending where you shop, of course, as a reputable place that knows more or less what they are doing will of course have sourced more genuine items than fakes, but on the whole, at least 80% of everything is not genuine."

In the past years the auctioning of some rather strange alleged Hitler objects by Alexander Historical Auctions (Chesapeake, Maryland) attracted the attention of the world press. What are your experiences with this auction house and its owner, Basil Panagopulos?

Rivett: "I have had very limited contact with him. The last time would have been on the Wehrmacht Awards Forum, where I questioned him about the supposed Red Telephone he advertised as belonging to Hitler. The telephone that was rejected by collectors and a museum curator in Germany as being a parts-piece, with the receiver - or a major part, I forget exactly which now - originating from England and not Germany. His response to me was to threaten me, swear at me and to basically be rude.

On the discussion thread about the "Adolf's" red telephone on the Wehrmacht Awards Forum, I asked him to prove some claims he made, and his response was to threaten me, swear at me too.

That post stayed up for 3 days, and then suddenly disappeared. Luckily Mr. Rivett made this screen shot. About the disappearance Rivett remarked: "Panagopulos would have gotten a friend of his at the WAF to take it down. They do that often, leave horrible posts up, and then remove if the dealer or auctioneer asks them too."

That’s is nothing uncommon for me, as doing what I do with my videos, research and books exposing fakes, frauds and scams, I often come into contact with these sorts. People who have nothing to support their wild claims with, so resort to personal attack and or insult."

to top of page | to start interview

Threats

It's understandable that the fakers and forgers aren't quite happy with your revelations. But do they stop at insulting you, or...?

Rivett: "I get death threats, threats that the next show I turn up at I will get fucked up, be killed, that my house will be set afire.

I was told many times now that as soon as any photo of me can be found online - which cannot, I never put one up, and am not on social media with any private life - they, the fakers, will write bogus stories that I am a pedophile et cetera.

They will do anything to somehow ruin me, to make me stop exposing fakes, make me stop promoting the use of the microscope in the hobby, make me stop talking about them."

Apparently without much success. How do you cope with these insults and threats?

If anyone did, at any point, have a real problem with any of my research, or if they were of the opinion that something I exposed as fake was not, or visa versa, then they could simply engage in dialog. They could post "their truth", or correct what they think I did was wrong, on any forum, and explain why. To date, nobody has. I am just "wrong" about many things, but nobody is willing to say exactly what, or even to support their claims.

So until that day comes, I'll just carry on doing what I do.

I have experienced much worse than Mr. Panagopulos' comment. One German dealer said he was going to kill me, beat me up and do all sorts of things to me and my family.

I wrote him a long and polite mail back, asking him how he thinks this would all look if I made a video and showed his comments to collectors.

He suddenly became a different person, and was apologetic. So I just left it at that, and told him that I would never mention this again or show his mails to anyone.

Which I have not, and won't."

to top of page | to start interview

The website

Your website, www.parteiabzeichen.ch, can only be visited after registration. Why?

Rivett: "Because we are a closed community of dedicated researchers, not your average collector who just trolls the net to find someone tell him his fake is genuine."

You charge $50.- for 'membership' to your site. Why?

Rivett: "Well no journalist writes for free, so why should the many articles on my site I have researched and written be available for free? Why should any of the period books available for download be free? Some of them are available only on my site as a reprint, for example the 1935 RZM Handbuch. It cost me €3,000 to buy, and more to scan the 800 A3 site pages…. Plenty more things too. Some articles can cost me thousands to acquire the material, examine them/it, and then write about them, so that can never be free.

Even the Wehrmacht Awards Forum charges €30.- to be a member, so when I charge $50, this is more than fair."

to top of page | to start interview

Finally

Rivett: "The more you research this subject, the more fraud you will find. It's pretty scary. You said yesterday that this side is only pennies compared to History Channel TV docus and so, and yes it is, but it doesn't matter to me if the item is worth 10 dollars or 1000, I see it as an insult to history. Especially if we have all the correct facts, and some Yank comes along and just invents his own, overwriting documented history to help him sell a fake."

to top of page | to start interview

Books by Jo Rivett

	*The Party Badge*, B&D Publishing LLC, Richmond (Michigan, US), 2013. 520p. $285,- 2nd edition expected in 2019.
	*The TENO Ehrenzeichen*. Exposing fake Militaria. 2016. 136p. $60,-.
	Gestapo Dienstmarke 5651. Militaria Microscopy Nr. 1., 2016. 56p. $40,-.

to top of page | to start interview

The right to hear and be heard

In the context of the right to hear and be heard we've given Bill Shea, Thomas Wittmann and Basil Panagopulos the opportunity to react on this interview. Only Mr. Shea choose to respond.

Bill Shea:"I have reviewed the comments made by Jo Rivett and do appreciate the opportunity to respond. Let’s look at the facts.

I have been buying selling and collecting WWII memorabilia for 60 years and have handled hundreds of thousands of items. Once in a while, an item has slipped by me and my loyal followers are quick to let me know and I immediately remove it from my website and study the item as there is always something to be learned. If I make an occasional mistake, I quickly correct the error. Every item I sell is backed by my written lifetime money back guarantee just as the example displayed in this article. I have less than a 1/10^th of 1% return rate on items I have sold over the last six decades.

The stick pin referenced in this article was initially exposed as a fake. I immediately removed it from my website, www.therupturedduck.com, to study it. It was purchased directly from the son of a US Army WWII veteran so I had good reason to believe it was an original example. Subsequently, I did have a Dutch collector contact me stating this was indeed an original example. Perhaps he will read this article and provide additional input.

Mr. Rivett takes issue with the verbiage in my Certificates of Authenticity. Perhaps he does not understand the purpose of the COA is to provide as much detail as possible regarding the qualifications of the individual who is writing it. I have provided evaluations which have proven the test of time and have even been used in court cases to resolve disputes. I have no idea how other dealers word their written guarantees. I can assure your readers that these are my words backed up by thousands of satisfied customers.

My reference book series, THE STORIES BEHIND THE TREASURES OF WORLD WAR II, have been extremely well received. I would ask your readers to look them up on Amazon and spent a few minutes to read the dozens of reviews. Let my readers do the talking for me.

Lastly, Mr. Rivett takes umbrage to a Golden Party Badge stick pin that he sold me alluding to the fact that I misled potential customers regarding the research potential. I have research experts who are finding new information on a number of different areas of the archives from the Third Reich. On more than one occasion, I have submitted a number from a Golden Party Badge and was told that no information was available. Then, a year or two later, the researcher contacted me to let me know the number had been located. And, by the way, I have never used the services of Robert McDivett to search for Golden Party Badge numbers!"

to top of page | to start interview

In the context of of the right to hear and be heard we've given Jo Rivett the opportunity to comment on Mr. Shea's response.

Jo Rivett: "Shea's reply verifies everything I have been writing about and fighting for in the hobby for the past 10 years. We need to remove the egos and personalities out of the hobby, and study the actual items in detail. This is the only way, indeed the logical way to determine what is fake or not.

The focus of a certificate of authenticity (CoA) must center around the actual item, explaining to the buyer why the piece of history he has purchased is genuine. You will find none of this in a CoA from Shea, in fact you find the exact opposite. As I stated in the original interview, his CoA's deal mainly with him, and do not prove in any way that the item they accompany is genuine. Where the item is mentioned, what is mentioned it is nothing that cannot already be seen with the naked eye. Where are the facts, the detailed research that must accompany, indeed be the foundations of a certificate of authenticity. The very name say it, a certificate proving that the item is authentic, not how many years someone has been fondling militaria or what films he has helped out on.

Shea's claim of studying items he removes is ludicrous. What did he discover after removing the fantasy Lebensborn stickpin?

That it was cast? That the mold it originated from was tooled on a modern CNC-milling machine?

That the enamels were post-1980's soft enamels?

And where does he publish or share the results of his examinations or studies? Because I have never seen any.

Why would an anonymous Dutch collector be needed to verify authenticity if Shea had in fact removed the item and studied it, like he claimed?

The mind boggles!

Shea's repetitive use of the word "I" says it all really, it is all about him, who he thinks he is and what he thinks his qualifications are.

There is no need at all to mention how long you have been collecting, buying or selling, this has no relevance at all and why should it? The items are either genuine, or they are fake, and the only way to find that out, is to look at them in detail, to study them, and to present those findings to others who can in turn also learn from them. Exactly what I have been doing for many years now.

Shea's claim that I sold him a Golden Party badge is rather strange, as I have neither purchased nor sold him anything, ever, and never would.

What a very unusual response and wasted opportunity from Shea, although predictable. The all too common use of the word "vet", the alpha male stamp of authority from word go by mentioning "60 years" experience.

What a shame, and what an embarrassing response. Unfortunate-ly, this reflects the state of the hobby today. "I am the big I am… and history will dance to my tune."

to top of page | to start interview